Canid evolution

Discuss other canids (dogs, coyotes, foxes, dholes, etc.).

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Shaaman
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Canid evolution

Post by Shaaman » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:59 pm

I know that canids evolved from miacids and they were among the first carnivore mammals to get sharp teeth for tearing meat, but what did miacids evolve from? Could a biologist out there please say what the evolved from, all the way to multi-cell?
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Re: Canid evolution

Post by hockeydoodle » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:41 pm

hi
Last edited by hockeydoodle on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Canid evolution

Post by Shaaman » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:59 am

Now un-needed post
Last edited by Shaaman on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Canid evolution

Post by silverwolfspirit » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:47 pm

Hmmm.. I'll go and google it, may edit this post when I find out... (hockeydoodle please don't talk about religioun. c:)

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Re: Canid evolution

Post by pawnee » Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:10 pm

hockey doodle please don`t post a one liner...thanks.

I used to have a chart that had the evolutionary history...I regret throwing it out now!

canines evolved from civet like animals...weasel looking almost. I don`t know which one developed the sharpest teeth first, but the class of carnivore split off into diffrent groups including candids.

As forests turned to savanahs and plains, the candid animals grew and adapted to running prey down. I`m going to find a book with more specific details...
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Re: Canid evolution

Post by Shaaman » Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:23 am

Yay I started an investigation!

The civet like creatures you were referring to were miacids.
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Re: Canid evolution

Post by silverwolfspirit » Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:25 am

Hmm.... So I tried researching on google, "what evolved from Miacads" bit it didn't work.

How about I search on google,"canid evolution chart?"

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Re: Canid evolution

Post by pawnee » Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:18 pm

Shaaman wrote:Yay I started an investigation!

The civet like creatures you were referring to were miacids.
ya I realized that right after I clicked "post" :p

heres something I found on kitty evolution...
In zoological classification cats belong to the Class : Mammalia (mammals - hair covered animals that suckle their young with breast milk), the Order : Carnivora (they are carnivores - they eat meat) and the Family: Felidae. Within this family there are three further subdivisions called genera (Panthera (cats that roar), Acinonyx (the Cheetah) and Felis (all other "small" cats)), and each genus contains individual species. A species of cats is a group that normally breeds and produces fertile offspring

The earliest ancestors of cats originally evolved about 200 million years ago from reptiles. Prehistoric remains of cats are few and far between but the dental pattern of modern day cats is similar to that found in fossilised creodonts - primitive fish-eating mammals which lived about 50 million years ago, but this genetic line failed to survive and there are no direct descendants today.

At the same time another group of animals the miacids also had cat-like cutting teeth - they were small forest-dwelling creatures and these evolved into the carnivores of today - including some cats.

The extinct superfamily Miacoidea is divided in two families of old carnivores: Miacidae and Viverravidae. They were primitive carnivores which lived during the Paleocene and Eocene Epoch about 33-65 million years ago.

Miacids were most of all small marten-like carnivores. They probably fed on invertebrates, lizards, birds and smaller mammals like shrews and opossums. Some species were arboreal, others lived on the ground. Their teeth and skull show that the miacids were less developed than the modern carnivores.

The superfamily Miacoidea can be divided into two families: the Miacidae and the Viverravidae. The Miacidae evolved into the caniforms (dogs, bear-dogs, bears, raccoons and weasels), while the Viverravidae evolved into the feliforms (cats, hyaenas and mongooses).
-http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?a ... 4977041872
Miacids are an extinct group of mammalian carnivores that gave rise to cats, bears, dogs, skunks, mongooses, hyenas, and all other felids and canids. Relatively small and frequently described as marten-like, miacids were the first wave of mammalian carnivores to evolve 65 million years ago, after an asteroid obliterated the dinosaurs and left numerous ecological niches wide open. Miacids persisted until 33 million years ago. The miacids that survived evolved into the carnivorans we know today -- including the family dog or cat. Carnivorans are sometimes referred to as the most intelligent mammalian group outside of the great apes.

Relatively small carnivores, miacids were typically the size of housecats, although a few species were as large as modern-day wolves. Many were arboreal (lived in trees), but some lived on the ground, where they consumed small mammals like rodents and invertebrates like beetles. The miacids are divided into two groups: Miacidae, which evolved into the caniforms (bear-dogs, dogs, raccoons, bears, and weasels), and Viverravidae, which evolved into the feliforms (cats, hyenas, and mongooses). Like many other mammals, miacids were covered in a layer of fur, had tails, and elevated metabolisms.

Miacids were one of the first mammalian carnivores. Mammals had existed for tens of millions of years before the extinction of the dinosaurs, but they were mostly small, rodent or shrew-like herbivores and detrivores that scurried around at night, trying to avoid being eaten by the numerous, terrifying carnivorous dinosaurs everywhere. With the extinction of their oppressors—the dinosaurs—mammals were finally free to branch out and take over the world, a position they still enjoy to this day.

Miacids were among the first mammals to develop teeth for the shearing and tearing of meat, a feature retained by all modern carnivorans. Miacids lived in Eurasia and North America, inhabiting the nearly worldwide tropical forests that thrived before the Ice Age set in about 23 million years ago.
-http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-miacids.htm

hmmmm.hopefully at the library theres more info on this...
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Re: Canid evolution

Post by Shaaman » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:32 am

Hurry with that info I can't find it tho
What pray is that rush?
The rush that comes to all?
The grass in field
and the
leaves in the trees sway to it
Where does this rush come from?
This is a question never asked before.
Do you, pray know the answer?
The answer searched by men.

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Re: Canid evolution

Post by silverwolfspirit » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:35 pm

I'll start some more searching...

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Re: Canid evolution

Post by SolitaryHowl » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:15 pm

Found something: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images21/Ch ... lution.jpg

Not sure if that's what your looking for but I have another one.

http://geology.fullerton.edu/whenderson ... /Chart.gif

and I'm pretty sure this isn't related, but here's a visual reference:

http://hal_macgregor.tripod.com/kennel/Evolute.jpg
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Shaaman
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Re: Canid evolution

Post by Shaaman » Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:29 pm

the first link the history of the creation of dogs from wolves
The second is a little un-related
the last has nothing to do with wolves

Still researching, now asking experts at other sites
What pray is that rush?
The rush that comes to all?
The grass in field
and the
leaves in the trees sway to it
Where does this rush come from?
This is a question never asked before.
Do you, pray know the answer?
The answer searched by men.

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